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Date:	Wed, 8 Oct 2003 04:47:34 PDT7
From:	Peter Skye <pskye@peterskye.com >
Reply-To:	scoug-help@scoug.com
To:	scoug-help@scoug.com
Subject:	SCOUG-Help: SCOUG list server timestamp violation (was: message time 2 from mr2/ice)

Content Type: text/plain

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Quick important note: See the bottom half of this message -- the SCOUG
list server appears to be in violation of proper time zone
identification on the Date line.
_____

Steven Levine wrote:
>
> Here's an outbound [timetest msg] send at 5:50pm PDT.

Steven,

All three test messages arrived here with the proper time displayed
(17:39, 17:48, 17:49) in my Netscape 2.02 email client, but:

-- 1) the first two headers show +0000 for the X-OldDate while the third
header shows -0700

-- 2) the X-OldDate differential is 8 hours, not 7 hours as it should be
(take a look at the headers if you didn't already notice this latter
problem).

Curiosity questions about your three test messages:

-- Why is the Date (X-OldDate after restamping) in your third test
message shown as -0700 while the first two are +0000?

-- Did the settings you used for the first two test messages cause
Mozilla to convert those outbound header Date stamps to GMT?

It doesn't look like you were changing the TZ value because the message
time was *adjusted* to +0000 rather than just labeled as +0000 (and note
again that the adjustment was an incorrect 8 hours rather than the
appropriate 7 hours).
_____

TIME ZONE ABBREVIATIONS NOW OBSOLETE AS PER RFC 2822

Finally, is it possible that Mozilla doesn't understand "PDT7" which the
SCOUG list server uses in the restamp? If you (or Ray) manually change
the message from "PDT7" to "-0700" does the correct time miraculously
appear? A few years ago I ran into this particular problem where an
abbreviation used for the time offset wasn't understood by all software.

IMPORTANT: "PDT7" isn't supported by RFC 2822 "Internet Message Format"
(email format and the revision of RFC 822) -- see section 3.3 and also
section 4.3 which explicitly states that time zone abbreviations (such
as "PDT") are obsolete (i.e. the SCOUG list server is in violation of
RFC 2822). ("PDT" was allowed in the earlier RFC 822 -- see section
5.1.)

Also see RFC 2821 "Simple Mail Transfer Protocol" section 4.4 which says
in reference to Received (not Date) fields:

"SMTP servers that create Received fields SHOULD use
explicit offsets in the dates (e.g., -0800), rather
than time zone names of any type. Local time (with
an offset) is preferred to UT when feasible."

and it is possible that the same applies to Date lines although I can't
find a reference in RFC 2821 for the Date line format.

Thus, Mozilla may be following _only_ RFC 2822 and ignoring the time
zone abbreviations which were allowed in the earlier RFC 822. A quick
manual change of a message header from -0700 to PDT7 and vice versa
should discern Mozilla's acceptance of the "PDT" abbreviation.

RFC 2821 is dated April 2001 whereas RFC 822 is dated 1982.

- Peter

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