07-28-99 19:06:06 *** Log Activated #scoug (D:\APPS\GTIRC30\#scoug.log) 07-28-99 19:06:09 Hey, Dave. 07-28-99 19:06:10 There he is 07-28-99 19:06:15 hello, all! 07-28-99 19:06:27 Yes, we are going overboard. My problems start when we find out that we have more people coming than the amount of facilities we have reserved. 07-28-99 19:06:34 ...um, i use the tere "all" loosely 07-28-99 19:06:56 * Sector thinks the facilities need to be expanded 07-28-99 19:06:59 On the fingers of one hand. 07-28-99 19:07:21 Guilty of overbooking? 07-28-99 19:07:23 Would Sector like to donate another $1K for more facilities???? 07-28-99 19:07:44 You mean we don't get it for free? 07-28-99 19:07:52 OVERbooked? 07-28-99 19:08:00 Sure, I'll send you 1K... 07-28-99 19:08:05 WEW 07-28-99 19:08:14 When you through a no cost to attend to everyone, you never know how many people will show up. 07-28-99 19:08:35 Probably why others charge. 07-28-99 19:08:40 Have you signed up to come (and present)? 07-28-99 19:08:50 Both. 07-28-99 19:09:01 Even volunteered. 07-28-99 19:09:28 Sector, That $1K did have a dollar sign in front of it, to be paid in US dollars!! 07-28-99 19:09:43 So much for pesos. 07-28-99 19:09:51 Or lira. 07-28-99 19:10:22 I expect it will be a big success 07-28-99 19:10:25 I'll donate 1K of memory 07-28-99 19:10:35 Yours or mine? 07-28-99 19:11:07 Dave, did you get a message from Bob Chapman? 07-28-99 19:11:12 *** nnnn (raennnn@slip129-37-51-237.ca.us.ibm.net) has joined #scoug [19:11:12] 07-28-99 19:11:24 haven't checked mail today. Checking now... 07-28-99 19:11:53 We are having trouble with our tcpip configuration with our dsl connection. 07-28-99 19:12:20 *** nnnn has left #scoug [19:12:20] 07-28-99 19:13:31 It ought to make sense to someone. 07-28-99 19:13:54 *** kerry (trixer@noc.suntrix.com) has joined #scoug [19:13:54] 07-28-99 19:14:00 scuse me 07-28-99 19:14:02 *** kerry has left #scoug [19:14:02] 07-28-99 19:14:06 It "almost" works. 07-28-99 19:14:14 Must be bad breath. 07-28-99 19:14:42 These guys must be looking for someplace private to meet. 07-28-99 19:15:28 8 seconds must be close to the record. 07-28-99 19:15:47 If he comes back, let's offer him a prize. 07-28-99 19:15:49 Ummm, kerry (aka trixer) is one of the two principles involved with Suntrix.com (where this IRC network comes from) 07-28-99 19:16:07 *** rollin (rwhite@cc228605-a.slbch1.occa.home.com) has joined #scoug [19:16:07] 07-28-99 19:16:17 Umm, NickFun joined and left #wallops earlier in 3 seconds 07-28-99 19:16:47 I don't want to discuss my lovelife. 07-28-99 19:17:17 maybe kerry had us bookmarked. 07-28-99 19:17:28 * Sector que's DaveWgt 07-28-99 19:17:32 At least not overbooked. 07-28-99 19:18:07 Nah, kerry seems to be wandering around, he was in #voice for 5 seconds as well 07-28-99 19:18:35 Nust be wanting to see if anyone from AOL is present. 07-28-99 19:18:41 Good news for Rollin, Argyros Forum rm 206B has 7 electrical outlets, 2 lan ports and two double doors. How about that! 07-28-99 19:18:59 Easier ways to do that, no need to join a channel to find that out 07-28-99 19:19:06 What will we do with the extra doors? 07-28-99 19:19:14 Steve, great. Do you have dimensions? 07-28-99 19:19:24 * Sector wants four quadruple doors 07-28-99 19:19:31 Does he! 07-28-99 19:19:32 Rollin, I have the dimensions. 07-28-99 19:20:05 Is that the room in which we are going to hold the network benchmarks? 07-28-99 19:20:15 is this an additional room or a replacement? 07-28-99 19:21:17 IT's a change. It will be the exhibit room. 07-28-99 19:21:37 Rollin, I have been invited to lunch tomorrow. Will give you the plot plan then. But we have to figure out a way to decide on the lunch location in less than a half hour without it being BK. 07-28-99 19:21:42 Does that mean we are now underbooked? 07-28-99 19:22:10 Overbooked! 07-28-99 19:22:24 You sure sound happy about it. 07-28-99 19:22:39 It makes all of the hard work much more rewarding. 07-28-99 19:22:47 Lynn, the exhibit room is where the server maddness will be. 07-28-99 19:23:03 Just how made do we have in mind? 07-28-99 19:23:17 But I better be carefull, I am not in charge of that planning effort. Better let the chairman speak. 07-28-99 19:23:18 made -> mad 07-28-99 19:23:53 We'll see. Actually the part of Server MAdness we're having the most trouble with is to make it compelling for non network nuts..... 07-28-99 19:24:10 We might enjoy seeing 32 different server functions on OS/2, but the average user could care less. 07-28-99 19:24:28 I would agree with the average user. 07-28-99 19:24:51 we've been discussing benchmarks lately, if we can set up some form of competition, that would be interesting to most people 07-28-99 19:24:52 But it could/should be interesting to them. We just need to make it sizzle a little. 07-28-99 19:25:09 Whose or which benchmarks are we using? 07-28-99 19:25:39 Ziff Davis published a flyoff between NT and Linux servers recently, they have an OS2 version of the test. We could run that 07-28-99 19:25:53 On another subject to Rollin. The Sundial web server responsiveness was the pits around 2pm this afternoon. 07-28-99 19:25:56 that would make it a head-to-head race 07-28-99 19:26:12 scoug has been slow for several days 07-28-99 19:26:30 I know. Unfortunately I wasn't around to analyize the situation. 07-28-99 19:26:35 Pings were taking anyware from 1700 to 4500+ ms to respond. 07-28-99 19:26:58 I'll bet IBM already ran the ZD benchmarks. I wonder if they indicate we're comparable? 07-28-99 19:26:59 Normally they should be under 100ms. 07-28-99 19:27:16 Dave, why the interest in head-to-head? 07-28-99 19:27:33 I can wait for pings. http calls are more important, though 07-28-99 19:27:50 head-to-head = competition = excitement = "sizzle" 07-28-99 19:28:20 doing a benchmark that only compares you to yourself isn't very interesting -- to anyone 07-28-99 19:28:21 I should have said that the pings to the Sundial web server should be under 400ms end to end. 07-28-99 19:29:10 Ahh, I just figured out my Network SIG topic for August. 07-28-99 19:29:13 Well, we differ on that point. Again maybe I'm not anyone. 07-28-99 19:30:28 steves - "ping"? 07-28-99 19:31:10 "August topic - Ping timing" That'll pack them in... 07-28-99 19:31:21 What does Dave mean "ping?" 07-28-99 19:31:52 you were talking about ping, then you said you know what your aug topic it. 07-28-99 19:32:17 just trying to break your "code" 07-28-99 19:32:32 The topic will be "Getting ready for WEW" or something like that. 07-28-99 19:33:12 How about "Getting ready for ping?" 07-28-99 19:33:15 ah. I've been trying to get some discussion on that topic here for a month. approximately zero participation 07-28-99 19:33:28 *** StevenL (steve53@pool0787.cvx10-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net) has joined #scoug [19:33:28] 07-28-99 19:33:28 How about pinging WEW? 07-28-99 19:33:53 Ah, another visitor 07-28-99 19:34:15 Yep. 07-28-99 19:34:15 So far all local. 07-28-99 19:34:41 we'll have irc running all day. we can offer a prize for the visitor with the longest ping 07-28-99 19:34:53 (more contests) 07-28-99 19:35:15 Try the shortest. 07-28-99 19:35:16 Just route your ping around the world a few times... 07-28-99 19:35:40 I can see it now, "my ping is longer then your ping" 07-28-99 19:35:42 we want to encourage international participation 07-28-99 19:36:18 Peter, our marketing guy, can make a big thing of that 07-28-99 19:36:20 An international ping contest. 07-28-99 19:37:10 sector can we run scripts on irc channels, and ping visitors when the conect and log their id and ping rate? 07-28-99 19:37:40 edit the logon script to display the longest ping so far 07-28-99 19:37:46 You ping-a me, I ping-a you, and everyone goes crazy. 07-28-99 19:38:20 ping is probably approximately proportional to distance from server? 07-28-99 19:38:25 maybe not 07-28-99 19:38:28 You could make a REXX script that would interface with GTIRC and ping everyone who logs into the channel, of course you could then have REXX same the information to a file 07-28-99 19:38:45 from my client? 07-28-99 19:38:52 Yup 07-28-99 19:39:12 There are some sample 07-28-99 19:39:23 this is interesting. I need to learn to do that 07-28-99 19:39:28 REXX scripts that come with GTIRC, one is an autogreet that could be changed to an auto ping 07-28-99 19:39:32 I want to lash rsynth into gtirc 07-28-99 19:39:36 *** CTCP PING (StevenL) (#scoug) 07-28-99 19:40:09 Now you've done it. 07-28-99 19:40:22 * Sector wonders what he did 07-28-99 19:41:23 Who pinged StevenL? 07-28-99 19:41:40 i never noticed the scripts in the directory. reading them now. 07-28-99 19:41:52 * Sector was returning the favor 07-28-99 19:41:58 The man does a lot of online reading. 07-28-99 19:45:39 yes, the rexxmessage looks like the ticket. 07-28-99 19:45:54 Welcome back, Dave. 07-28-99 19:46:09 sample function included. need to adapt that to rsynth 07-28-99 19:46:27 I'll have it whipped by next Wednesday, will post the script on the web page! 07-28-99 19:47:01 Do we have any other business? 07-28-99 19:47:25 no, I regret I don't have an agenda tonight 07-28-99 19:47:55 Well, do you have a tcpip expert in the house? 07-28-99 19:48:05 lmaxson you.ll be up Saturday morning? 07-28-99 19:48:15 Yes,' 07-28-99 19:48:17 * Sector wonders what the "Agenda for July 28th, 7-8PM PDT:" is doing on the webpage then... 07-28-99 19:48:39 best laid plans... 07-28-99 19:48:42 Which webpage. 07-28-99 19:48:43 * StevenL Sector is really picky :) 07-28-99 19:48:48 THE web page 07-28-99 19:48:55 * Sector pick pick pick 07-28-99 19:48:56 www.scoug.com/chat 07-28-99 19:48:57 * Sector picks on StevenL 07-28-99 19:49:36 oh, no, we were talking about the meeting page. I think that's www.scoug.com/internet/meeting.html 07-28-99 19:49:38 http://www.scoug.com/internet/meeting.html 07-28-99 19:50:14 everything interesting is linked from the chat page, though 07-28-99 19:50:35 including lmaxson's warpicity overview. We gonna add more on that? 07-28-99 19:50:42 * Sector wonders where the uninteresting stuff is linked from 07-28-99 19:50:58 efnet? 07-28-99 19:51:56 I've been connecting to calif2 lately, since I paid for gtirc and don't have to enter the address every time anymore 07-28-99 19:52:04 interesting login message 07-28-99 19:52:21 "we're not effnet 07-28-99 19:52:57 What more on Warpicity would you want? 07-28-99 19:53:00 That would be the MOTD (Message Of The Day) file not that it's actually changed since the day it was put up... 07-28-99 19:53:28 ... maybe it's grown? It's REEEALLL long 07-28-99 19:53:57 I have another article appearing in the August VOICE newsletter in preparation for the Aug.28th session. 07-28-99 19:54:15 I want to start turning up the marketing heat, build us up for Expo 07-28-99 19:54:16 Yeah, it is kinda long... 07-28-99 19:54:43 gtirc seems kind of slow rendering the text 07-28-99 19:54:45 The marketing heat on Warpicity? 07-28-99 19:55:03 ALL the irc activities 07-28-99 19:55:23 I'm gonna get some trinkets, start a raffle 07-28-99 19:55:44 How many of us will be able to tie in to IRC while at WEW? 07-28-99 19:55:47 maybe start actually preparing some content 07-28-99 19:55:59 Dave has been talking aobut raffle's for months now... 07-28-99 19:56:09 we haven't stress tested the net afaik 07-28-99 19:56:10 Is raffles his dog? 07-28-99 19:56:31 i'm guessing webbnet can handle hundreds? 07-28-99 19:56:44 hundreds, no problem 07-28-99 19:57:04 Partly depends on how may systems we have connected to the internet at WEW. 07-28-99 19:57:05 Then what does the numbers at the start when you log on mean? 07-28-99 19:57:06 Just don't put them all on the same server... 07-28-99 19:57:20 have any of you seen the frequent recent "press releases" weve been sending for Expo? 07-28-99 19:57:31 Sector, how many users can one server handle? 07-28-99 19:57:40 How can you miss them. 07-28-99 19:58:05 We pitched the saturday speakup pretty good, seemed to me. Prime time. Only 27 max 07-28-99 19:58:27 oohhh - we can get a celebrity 07-28-99 19:58:37 It's getting towards 8. Need to leave. 07-28-99 19:58:47 Depends on the servers connection, the calif2 server for example only has a 33.6k link (possibly that could change soon) but with the low bandwidth of IRC it can still handle a fair amount 07-28-99 19:58:49 thanks for coming. See you sat 07-28-99 19:59:05 See you Sat. 07-28-99 19:59:11 Bye 07-28-99 19:59:12 *** lmaxson has left #scoug [19:59:12] 07-28-99 19:59:12 what does one connect take, a few BPS? 07-28-99 19:59:25 Heck if I know 07-28-99 19:59:57 we're a real narrow band process, so i suspect the choke is in the server, not I/O 07-28-99 20:00:33 theres a topic. "IRC Stress Test - see if we can break sector's server" 07-28-99 20:01:26 do you see a detectable cpu load when we get another connect? 07-28-99 20:01:43 * Sector wonders if DaveWgt knows what a K-line is... 07-28-99 20:01:48 or when we submit text? 07-28-99 20:01:55 Couldn't tell, that CPU is running at 100% all the time 07-28-99 20:02:15 we should all try typing 3 or 4 lines, count to 3 and send simultaneously, see if it registers on the meter 07-28-99 20:03:59 no, what's kline 07-28-99 20:04:11 I have a friend named jerry kline 07-28-99 20:05:18 It can be added to the ircd.conf file to restrict access (ie: a k-line could be put in so nobody in the *.lax-ca.concentric.net could get on the server) 07-28-99 20:05:36 * Sector had a teacher named Susan Kline (a number of years back) 07-28-99 20:06:00 ah. I've never run an irc server. have one, have to try it sometime 07-28-99 20:06:25 ... and I have several isp's! 07-28-99 20:06:39 the ircd.conf file can handle multiple k-lines... 07-28-99 20:07:05 what's the "k" 07-28-99 20:07:17 k=kill 07-28-99 20:07:30 ah. 07-28-99 20:08:13 Dave, one of the topic subjects you have listed on the web page is Time Zone Utilities. Please provide a description of what Time Zone Utilities are and what they do. 07-28-99 20:08:33 I'm using two - both freeware 07-28-99 20:09:25 IBM's pmworld puts up a world map, and you can select locations and display a little clock for each 07-28-99 20:09:42 you have an ini file to program size, colors, add locations, etc 07-28-99 20:10:13 handy when we try to figure times in remote locales 07-28-99 20:10:44 another nice one but a little rough around the edges is World Clock. 07-28-99 20:10:51 Is that the Mike Cowlishaw REXX world globe program? 07-28-99 20:11:07 It is a single window with text entries with cities and times 07-28-99 20:11:28 I've heard of the globe program, dl'd it, haven't run it yet 07-28-99 20:11:43 i understand it shows you where the sun is 07-28-99 20:11:56 what I need is a program that says where the tides are 07-28-99 20:12:07 I've only found a tide calcularot for Mac 07-28-99 20:12:41 world clock has a lot of promise, currently at ver .96. 07-28-99 20:13:00 author told me last week we'll have an update "real soon" 07-28-99 20:13:25 pmworld is on hobbes 07-28-99 20:15:20 world clock is at http://members.tripod.com/~Goran_Ivankovic/ 07-28-99 20:15:44 ROLLIN, Sundial web server is having lousy response right NOW!!! 07-28-99 20:16:19 world clock is still at the june version. Worth a look unless you need to add a city. 07-28-99 20:16:56 Rollin, and it is all coming from the server, not the routing. 07-28-99 20:17:00 currently 13:16 29th in Sydney 07-28-99 20:19:29 yes, pmglobe is colishaw's program 07-28-99 20:19:32 For Rollin incase he is busy doing other things, the NOW time was 20:15. 07-28-99 20:20:02 But where, was that Sydney time? 07-28-99 20:20:28 Got it Steve, thanks. 07-28-99 20:20:42 You awoke! 07-28-99 20:21:03 He heard the bellowing 07-28-99 20:24:32 * Sector clears out the sleeping gas 07-28-99 20:26:16 I walked away from the computer. I'm analyizing the logs right now. 07-28-99 20:26:51 * Sector handcuffs rollin to the computer 07-28-99 20:26:54 Melanie just came home. brb. 07-28-99 20:26:57 Now whats everyone elses excuse? 07-28-99 20:27:11 i'm working 07-28-99 20:30:22 I am back. 07-28-99 20:30:36 Is Melanie with you? 07-28-99 20:32:17 She has just come into the computer room and is standing in back of me at the moment. 07-28-99 20:32:47 Keeping an eye on you 07-28-99 20:32:53 Yep. 07-28-99 20:36:42 * Sector tries to shake everyone awake 07-28-99 20:37:40 I think we ran out of steam. Type to everyone later. 07-28-99 20:38:09 * Sector pumps steam into the channel 07-28-99 20:39:24 Bye 07-28-99 20:39:32 *** SteveS has left #scoug [20:39:32] 07-28-99 20:40:05 *** Signoff: rollin (Leaving) [20:40:05] 07-28-99 20:40:17 Is the ship sinking? 07-28-99 20:42:54 wow. small crew. 07-28-99 20:43:05 maybe we should call it quits for tonight 07-28-99 20:43:09 So it would seem 07-28-99 20:43:23 thanks for coming. see ya! 07-28-99 20:43:34 *** Log Terminated. 07-31-99 06:05:02 *** Log Activated #scoug (D:\APPS\GTIRC30\#scoug.log) 07-31-99 06:05:02 *** #SCOUG Mode is (+ ) 07-31-99 06:05:02 *** Created: Wed Jul 28 19:02:13 1999 07-31-99 06:05:10 And another wanders in 07-31-99 06:05:12 No, I was here on the internet, only not on IRC. 07-31-99 06:05:23 hi 07-31-99 06:05:31 Point the finger where it belongs. 07-31-99 06:06:19 * Sector points his finger at both lmaxson and DaveWgt... 07-31-99 06:06:42 That's V for victory. 07-31-99 06:07:07 Well, we made it. Though there is some doubt about Dave. 07-31-99 06:07:15 * Sector thought it was V for Visitors... 07-31-99 06:07:48 Take me to your leader. 07-31-99 06:08:01 V is the welcome sign for visitors. 07-31-99 06:08:04 * Sector takes lmaxson before SCOUGbot 07-31-99 06:08:20 Here come de judge. 07-31-99 06:08:50 Still no Dave, only a hi. 07-31-99 06:09:41 i'm here. trhin to get a little breakfast while I watch the monitor 07-31-99 06:10:06 this weekend I'm going to try to get voice working 07-31-99 06:10:11 * Sector checks to see if DaveWgt's fingers are broken 07-31-99 06:10:15 Hey, who said you get breakfast? 07-31-99 06:10:45 but voice recognition probably really bad with a bagel in the mouth 07-31-99 06:11:22 * Sector adds cream cheese to Dave's bagel 07-31-99 06:12:56 Maybe the weekends are just bad for Europeans. 07-31-99 06:13:52 and the evening bad for aussies 07-31-99 06:14:02 and the morning bad for americans 07-31-99 06:14:10 And Austrailians? 07-31-99 06:14:11 Them too. 07-31-99 06:14:22 This is not too bad. 07-31-99 06:14:46 the crowd always picks up as we get toward 7am 07-31-99 06:14:51 I'm up normally at this time to check my email. 07-31-99 06:15:07 Maybe we should consider a 7am start. 07-31-99 06:15:20 Then it would pick up around 8. 07-31-99 06:16:01 i really believe propoer marketing would make a difference 07-31-99 06:16:20 I need to improve that 07-31-99 06:17:21 Well, is the chat format neither familiar nor popular with the OS/2 community. 07-31-99 06:17:21 it's also useful for other participants to encourage their friends to attend 07-31-99 06:17:32 Maybe if you could entice Brad Wardell. 07-31-99 06:17:51 chat is sort of a niche protocol in any community 07-31-99 06:17:56 You need a bigger draw than Warpicity. 07-31-99 06:18:38 Not if you look at the battle out there with AOL and instant messaging. They're talking in the millions, tens of millions. 07-31-99 06:18:42 we need to line up guests for Expo and Warpstock. 07-31-99 06:18:58 maybe we could start getting some celebs now and practicing 07-31-99 06:19:30 I like instant messaging, but it's strictly one on one, isn't it? 07-31-99 06:19:34 Well, where's Rollin, Terry, or Peter? 07-31-99 06:20:02 No, it seems more sophisticated than that. 07-31-99 06:20:51 You have chat groups that essentially say "you got mail" if someone logs on to one in which you are interested. 07-31-99 06:21:21 I'm thinking of using it for meetings with collaborators. 07-31-99 06:21:27 Maybe there asleep? 07-31-99 06:22:07 I'm surprised the board doesn't meet here as does VOICE. 07-31-99 06:22:35 i'm going to try the next board meeting online 07-31-99 06:23:17 Are you back to providing a running summary over a chat session? 07-31-99 06:23:34 think it would work? 07-31-99 06:23:57 Well, there's work, and then there's work. 07-31-99 06:24:14 meetings and minutes are public 07-31-99 06:24:43 letting people who can't come to the meeting participate would be very democratic 07-31-99 06:25:40 Trying it should tell you if it works or not 07-31-99 06:25:41 I personally wouldn't try for more than a half hour. 07-31-99 06:25:42 But not board like. 07-31-99 06:25:42 The board can have an issue discussion. 07-31-99 06:25:42 *** Sector*=+andreww@03-123.015.popsite.net 07-31-99 06:25:43 *** USERHOST No information available 07-31-99 06:25:48 Make it part a public (chat) part of the meeting. 07-31-99 06:26:08 Don't attempt to do it for the entire meeting. 07-31-99 06:27:28 good idea 07-31-99 06:27:49 When you are a volunteer and give as much time as you do, you make a mistake about how others view time they spend. 07-31-99 06:28:08 Now you have no participation. 07-31-99 06:28:18 You want to do a step up from that. 07-31-99 06:28:28 Probably make it in small steps. 07-31-99 06:29:28 Even those of us who appear here have a life. 07-31-99 06:31:03 Also you are talking about funneling all the board activities through one person. 07-31-99 06:31:04 * Sector doesn't have a life 07-31-99 06:31:20 Well, sector ought to get one. 07-31-99 06:31:34 yeah, that was my concept, sort of online recorder 07-31-99 06:31:48 Why¨ 07-31-99 06:31:51 take questions from the net, provide synopsis of discussion 07-31-99 06:32:01 Every member of the board should be a participant. 07-31-99 06:32:09 kind of like c-span for scoug 07-31-99 06:32:11 Sector, just to have one handy. 07-31-99 06:32:25 no, i don't think the other board members would participate. 07-31-99 06:32:26 * Sector hasn't ever found a need for one 07-31-99 06:32:33 they're kind of old fashioned... 07-31-99 06:32:33 The point is you want chat to work. 07-31-99 06:32:53 i'd like it to work for the members, not for the board 07-31-99 06:33:14 It should work for everyone. 07-31-99 06:33:28 of course, sectors question (why?)probably applies for c-span, too 07-31-99 06:33:49 Sector is trying to decide about getting a life. 07-31-99 06:34:04 A life of his own. 07-31-99 06:34:27 * Sector doesn't need to decide 07-31-99 06:34:41 most folks have to conncentrate too hard on the reading and typing, they'd feel they couldn't participate in the actual meeting 07-31-99 06:35:01 everybody has a life. just different people have different ideas about it 07-31-99 06:35:17 Take another sip of coffee, Dave. 07-31-99 06:35:27 Relax for just a second. 07-31-99 06:35:35 i'm dry. need a refill 07-31-99 06:36:27 I'm into water and I have it with me. 07-31-99 06:36:40 i like multitasking. that's why i want to get voice working with irc 07-31-99 06:37:06 Did you ever consider that you may be overwhelming. 07-31-99 06:37:39 no 07-31-99 06:37:51 I thought not. 07-31-99 06:38:19 First you have to get their toe in the water. 07-31-99 06:38:25 dr max want to offer me some professional advice? 07-31-99 06:39:04 Dr. Max simply wants you to understand your intended audience that you want to participate. 07-31-99 06:39:32 What gets people to take that first step? 07-31-99 06:39:47 something the need 07-31-99 06:39:57 * Sector doesn't want wet toes 07-31-99 06:40:00 they 07-31-99 06:40:06 Something of perceived value. 07-31-99 06:40:20 personal value 07-31-99 06:40:31 Yes. 07-31-99 06:40:49 Some expectation of return on value. 07-31-99 06:41:07 After all it's costing them time. 07-31-99 06:41:17 That's a price you pay. 07-31-99 06:41:28 The question is what you get out of it in return. 07-31-99 06:42:34 I find it disappointing when leadership of scoug will complain about the lack of general membership participation. 07-31-99 06:43:30 disappointed about complaint or participation? 07-31-99 06:43:38 I think, for example, that WEW means more to the board than it does to the membership. 07-31-99 06:44:21 Disappointed about complaints. 07-31-99 06:44:27 we've always had very good turnout at the expo 07-31-99 06:44:44 It's not a matter of turnout. 07-31-99 06:44:55 what other measure? 07-31-99 06:45:28 I'm talking about the drive to put on WEW, not its measure of success or failure. 07-31-99 06:46:06 It's not an anit-WEW statement. It's about motivation. 07-31-99 06:46:37 It's about the source for that motivation. 07-31-99 06:46:53 quite a few of the members like the socialization of our meetings 07-31-99 06:46:53 At the current expectations WEW will exceed WarpStock. 07-31-99 06:47:11 exceed in attendance? 07-31-99 06:47:30 Exceed in attendance? Yes. 07-31-99 06:47:57 I agree with the socialization aspect and its importance in the meeting. 07-31-99 06:48:04 expo's only 1 day, ws is 2 07-31-99 06:48:32 Dave, it's the number of registrants, attendees. 07-31-99 06:49:02 You can have more in 1 day than you have appear in 2 in terms of registration. 07-31-99 06:49:15 that's probably proportional to marketing. expo's marketing is a little ahead of ws 07-31-99 06:49:30 they'll pick up - we're a month ahead of them 07-31-99 06:50:04 Consider the scope of the open house we have held previously. 07-31-99 06:50:18 yeah? 07-31-99 06:50:29 The motivation to expand it came from the board, not the membership. 07-31-99 06:50:46 It was announce a fait accompli to the membership. 07-31-99 06:50:49 this isn't really an expansion, just broader marketing 07-31-99 06:51:06 Dave, you got to be kidding me. 07-31-99 06:51:14 how so? 07-31-99 06:51:38 same 3 of speakers, same size, etc 07-31-99 06:51:45 It's the full fledge proposal that scoug made to host WarpStock. 07-31-99 06:51:46 3 = # 07-31-99 06:52:03 unrelated 07-31-99 06:52:05 Believe me it's bigger. 07-31-99 06:52:11 we bid on ws last year, too 07-31-99 06:52:21 It's not unrelated. 07-31-99 06:52:47 We are not simply placating Schiffman for a job well done. 07-31-99 06:53:05 We will bid every year. 07-31-99 06:53:08 the marketing makes the perceptions bigger, but it's really about the same 07-31-99 06:53:30 Dave, it's overbooked. 07-31-99 06:53:44 i doubt it 07-31-99 06:54:00 Why, you were in the same chat session with Rollin and Steve. 07-31-99 06:54:17 yeah. they're "forecasting" 07-31-99 06:54:41 But admittedly it's more than an open house. 07-31-99 06:55:10 no more than last year. only diff is we're using chapman instead of ibm 07-31-99 06:55:17 We are spending real bucks, more so than we would have had we won the WarpStock bid. 07-31-99 06:55:38 We're getting Chapman for free like IBM. 07-31-99 06:55:43 budget this year is about the same as last year 07-31-99 06:55:50 no, we're paying for chapman 07-31-99 06:55:52 . -> ? 07-31-99 06:56:00 Then we are spending more. 07-31-99 06:56:47 puts and takes. last year we bought lunch, not this year 07-31-99 06:57:23 scheduling ibm is an enormous "psychic" cost 07-31-99 06:57:51 they are not willing supporters. we have to drag them along every step of the way. 07-31-99 06:57:53 But that's a matter of convenience. 07-31-99 06:57:54 A difference in facilities. 07-31-99 06:57:54 Let's not wander for the moment. 07-31-99 06:57:57 chapman is more reliable 07-31-99 06:58:13 not convenience - reliability 07-31-99 06:58:17 The issue that the scoug board, you, and I lies in finding means of increasing participation by members. 07-31-99 06:58:58 that's not specifically our charter, but i suppose it's related 07-31-99 06:59:02 If socialization is important, then how do we incorporate it into our meetings. 07-31-99 06:59:35 You would like more people to show up here. 07-31-99 06:59:44 We are nearly at your 7am moment. 07-31-99 07:00:04 evidence of marketing's impact 07-31-99 07:00:09 We haven't had a single nibble, just to visit, sniff, and go away. 07-31-99 07:00:44 think we should shift to a later time next week? 07-31-99 07:00:53 Call it marketing if you will, but even marketing failure has to have a rational cause. 07-31-99 07:00:58 * Sector nibbles on lmaxson 07-31-99 07:01:05 No, the 6am is not the problem. 07-31-99 07:01:31 it is for most californians! 07-31-99 07:01:32 Sector, I could use the weight loss. 07-31-99 07:01:53 Yes, but we are trying for a broader audience. 07-31-99 07:03:01 For your Californians I would suggest putting some pizzaz into Monday evenings. 07-31-99 07:03:09 A later time my increase the participation from those in PDT 07-31-99 07:03:40 So make it Saturday morning 6am to 10am. 07-31-99 07:04:03 tha't pretty much what we have 07-31-99 07:04:26 i've advertised a start time, but not a close time 07-31-99 07:04:44 I like the Monday evening session. 07-31-99 07:04:57 it's a good group 07-31-99 07:05:22 But it needs larger participation. 07-31-99 07:05:27 i think traditional chat isn't agendized 07-31-99 07:05:43 we're trying to focus each of our 3 chats on a subject 07-31-99 07:06:32 mon is supposed to be help desk, but we don't get a lot of probs to handle 07-31-99 07:06:59 we have had some helpful discussions though, i think 07-31-99 07:07:02 It's a great opportunity to increase socialization. 07-31-99 07:07:19 Discussions = socialization 07-31-99 07:07:45 Let the participants decide. 07-31-99 07:07:54 we do a lot of socializing, if that's related to off-topic discussions 07-31-99 07:08:24 i think all our discussions follow the wishes of the participants 07-31-99 07:08:28 Sometime we are going to have to do a face-to-face. 07-31-99 07:09:03 we could do an irc topic at the general sig some month 07-31-99 07:09:20 sort of a face to face 07-31-99 07:09:20 What do you mean? 07-31-99 07:09:33 You mean you and I? 07-31-99 07:09:36 you want a face to face, could do it at scoug 07-31-99 07:09:59 ah. you and i can meet any time. 07-31-99 07:10:22 We're not making this work for us. 07-31-99 07:10:27 i was thinking of getting participation on an irc topic, the general sig could be a forum for that 07-31-99 07:10:42 That's a good idea. 07-31-99 07:10:43 works for me 07-31-99 07:11:14 I don't quite have the same level of success. 07-31-99 07:11:37 You pour a lot of energy into this. 07-31-99 07:11:46 not really 07-31-99 07:12:22 sittin here reading email, newspaper, tv, playing with dogs, happen to have an irc window open 07-31-99 07:12:53 First you must allocate the time. 07-31-99 07:12:56 might be more effective if i did put more into it 07-31-99 07:13:15 More thinking. 07-31-99 07:13:32 thinkin's easy. doin's hard 07-31-99 07:13:33 From my perspective you are hyperactive. 07-31-99 07:13:53 Your enthusiasm is obvious. 07-31-99 07:15:40 wow! they're going to tear down the huntington beach mall! 07-31-99 07:16:20 sorry. that surprised me. 07-31-99 07:16:26 That's enthusiasm. 07-31-99 07:16:32 Why? 07-31-99 07:16:49 okay, so i need to convert some of that enthusiasm into better promotion before next week 07-31-99 07:16:55 The Westminster Mall superceded it years ago. 07-31-99 07:17:29 No, you want to transfer that enthusiasm to others. 07-31-99 07:18:07 right. there's marketing and theres coercion 07-31-99 07:18:13 It may not be obvious to you, but I come here at this hour to support your effort. 07-31-99 07:18:26 thank you 07-31-99 07:18:56 I have this section on CompuServe devoted to the Warpicity Project. 07-31-99 07:19:05 Huntington Center had more then The City though 07-31-99 07:19:07 how's participation there 07-31-99 07:19:20 Yet it is almost impossible to get anyone to stay with the subject of a thread. 07-31-99 07:19:23 at compuserver? 07-31-99 07:19:38 and do you have scheduled events? 07-31-99 07:19:50 The participation consists mostly of lurkers, not participants. 07-31-99 07:20:10 Well, I try to schedule them for this. 07-31-99 07:20:11 same with any meeting 07-31-99 07:20:40 But at least in a chat session you know who's lurking. 07-31-99 07:20:53 if you have a scheduled meeting, I'd like to participate 07-31-99 07:21:07 i'm not sure why voice didn't like the compuserve session 07-31-99 07:21:18 There is a scheduled one on the 28th of August with voice. 07-31-99 07:21:24 seemed to work pretty well for me 07-31-99 07:21:40 but aug 28 is irc, not compuserve, right? 07-31-99 07:21:42 A lot of it had to do with the Java client most participants had to use 07-31-99 07:21:43 I know why they didn't. It sucked in terms of chat convenience. 07-31-99 07:22:03 the java client worked good for me 07-31-99 07:22:05 It introduced a technical barrier. 07-31-99 07:22:09 Yes VOICE has no intention of using CompuServe again 07-31-99 07:22:21 The limit of Guest??? was part of it 07-31-99 07:22:21 i know. I'm wondering why 07-31-99 07:22:22 VOICE is correct. 07-31-99 07:22:55 Actually Larry Finkelstein was the driver behind the switch. 07-31-99 07:23:08 i think it was just outside their familiar comfort zone 07-31-99 07:23:13 He needs CompuServe to work. 07-31-99 07:23:46 i don't particularly care if cs works, but if there are people there, and we can talk with them about our topic, it seems useful to us 07-31-99 07:23:52 Look the CompuServe chat is not up to this form. 07-31-99 07:24:04 ?? 07-31-99 07:24:18 This chat format. 07-31-99 07:24:44 Moreover currently it is only Windows based. 07-31-99 07:24:47 seemed about the same. little window. type stuff read stuff 07-31-99 07:25:01 netscape handled it fine for me 07-31-99 07:25:02 You can use OS2-CIM. 07-31-99 07:25:12 if you're cs msmber 07-31-99 07:25:30 I am. 07-31-99 07:25:35 im not 07-31-99 07:25:52 kind of like haveing a chat for only deltanet members 07-31-99 07:25:53 That's part of it. 07-31-99 07:25:57 cs is just an isp 07-31-99 07:26:27 who your isp is is irrlelvant for most people, excpet religious experiences like cs and aol 07-31-99 07:27:06 i have aol account, their chats also proprietary 07-31-99 07:27:07 CompuServe was once IBM's choice of support interface. 07-31-99 07:27:19 i don't think aol has the guest feature like cs 07-31-99 07:27:39 i thought the guest feature was great. 07-31-99 07:27:42 That battle is currently ongoing. 07-31-99 07:28:19 The objection was its disguising of the participant. 07-31-99 07:28:24 Of course, nicknames do me in here. 07-31-99 07:29:09 part of the "tradition" of irc 07-31-99 07:29:11 Then again I got kicked off twice by the CS server. 07-31-99 07:29:34 as it becomes mainstream (if) people will probably become more conventional 07-31-99 07:30:08 As long as you can indentify who is behind the nickname, it doesn't matter. 07-31-99 07:30:27 The problem is that these nicknames know each other. 07-31-99 07:30:39 One person using OS2-CIM could type but whatever he typed wasn't visible to anyone using the Java client, though those using OS2-CIM could see it. 07-31-99 07:31:16 Guest??? makes it kinda hard to know just who it is initially, unlike IRC where you can choose your own 07-31-99 07:31:17 Sector, it was an experiment that did not quite work as expected. 07-31-99 07:31:34 go to a new party, meet new people 07-31-99 07:32:23 If the nicknames know each other and you don't, then you are an outsider. 07-31-99 07:32:49 You want someone to participate, then you want to bring him inside. 07-31-99 07:33:34 However cute it may seem to the nickname owners, it is somewhat offputting to someone considering participating. 07-31-99 07:33:54 *** Sector is now known as Guest001 07-31-99 07:34:00 This better¨ 07-31-99 07:34:29 Sector, give it a rest. 07-31-99 07:34:39 *** Guest001 is now known as Sector 07-31-99 07:35:05 if a new participant is guest 002 or Bud DeLaCruz, same difference 07-31-99 07:35:35 If everybody uses that name. 07-31-99 07:35:49 even if Joe Smith, you still need to get to know them 07-31-99 07:36:08 If I call guest002 charles, then I am more inside that you. 07-31-99 07:36:38 so given there's a warming up curve, maybe there's a need for an online icebreaker 07-31-99 07:37:25 but once you call him charles, I can too, and now I'M inside 07-31-99 07:37:25 An icebreaker would be something that ties a real name to a nickname. 07-31-99 07:37:46 I wished it were that easy. 07-31-99 07:37:59 some traditionalists are still uncomfortable with real names 07-31-99 07:38:25 it's that easy for me. some folks always more shy than others 07-31-99 07:39:04 not a bad thing, just want to not make them feel uncomfortable about it 07-31-99 07:39:16 lurking is acceptable on irc 07-31-99 07:39:45 even shy folks will lurk if there's value for then 07-31-99 07:40:03 rhetorical question - what would we be discussing if 20 ppl here? 07-31-99 07:40:17 ans - whatever they wan 07-31-99 07:40:21 want. 07-31-99 07:40:46 point is, we don't know what a group will discuss, it happens pretty much spontaneously 07-31-99 07:41:28 2 ways to handle a forum like this - ad hoc discussions, perhaps with a little bit of guiding focus ("topic") 07-31-99 07:41:48 ...or strucutred presentations. moderated 07-31-99 07:42:53 i noticed the speakup last weekend stayed pretty much on topic, pretty well behaved, even with 27 people 07-31-99 07:43:12 so it seems to be mostly a matter of developing a focus people are interested in 07-31-99 07:43:36 how bout we come up with one or 2 specific topics for each session next week 07-31-99 07:43:41 advertise them 07-31-99 07:43:45 Connection Closed [07:43] 07-31-99 07:44:30 why did my 3scoug window say Connection Closed [7:43]? 07-31-99 07:45:21 *** Log Terminated. 07-31-99 07:47:43 *** Log Activated #scoug (D:\APPS\GTIRC30\#scoug.log) 07-31-99 07:47:45 * Sector throws Dave a rope 07-31-99 07:47:47 what happened? 07-31-99 07:47:57 You went in and out. 07-31-99 07:47:57 You kept comming and going 07-31-99 07:48:21 Too many connection options I think. 07-31-99 07:48:25 I got a comment Connection Closed 7:43 07-31-99 07:48:31 no pings 07-31-99 07:48:41 restarted gtirc 07-31-99 07:48:43 The server went down. 07-31-99 07:48:49 rejoin #scoug. 07-31-99 07:48:51 no one there 07-31-99 07:48:52 Yup, that means you where disconnected from the server, it doesn't mean the server went down 07-31-99 07:49:15 So there is a difference? 07-31-99 07:49:33 More like an application failure. 07-31-99 07:50:03 okay, so we were saying we need some topics to promote 07-31-99 07:50:09 I hate to say this, Dave, but we have passed the magic 7am mark. 07-31-99 07:50:16 yeah. 07-31-99 07:50:34 *** :Server Up 74 days, 20:30:56 07-31-99 07:50:42 We want to promote international participation in this session. 07-31-99 07:50:51 some of our folks have short attention spans. If I don't email them a day or 2 before, they forget 07-31-99 07:51:11 Dave, stop punishing yourself. 07-31-99 07:51:31 You shouldn't have to constantly remind them 07-31-99 07:51:40 how bout next week we shoot for 9am, 12 eastern, 4pm gmt, don't care about aussies 07-31-99 07:51:43 That's right. 07-31-99 07:51:49 no, not punishing, just analyzing 07-31-99 07:52:18 then pick 2 topics. advertise them specifically 07-31-99 07:52:36 can we break warpicity into separable chunks? 07-31-99 07:52:47 You want to try 9am, fine. I'm only good until 10:30, if I am good at all. 07-31-99 07:52:53 Warpicity hasn't even come up in these sessions. 07-31-99 07:53:16 check the logs. we've talked about it alot 07-31-99 07:53:34 That was with Seer. 07-31-99 07:53:38 okay, how bout 8am - 10am 07-31-99 07:53:50 Fine. 07-31-99 07:54:05 we need a set of topics to choose from. 07-31-99 07:54:28 You and I have a difference of opinion about purposes of benchmarking. 07-31-99 07:54:32 is there ongoing development with schedules? Would a status report be do-able? 07-31-99 07:54:40 Why not set a discussion on those difference. 07-31-99 07:54:49 and I think benchmarking could be a continuing topic 07-31-99 07:54:56 difference -> differences. 07-31-99 07:55:01 can we identify specific benchmarking topics? 07-31-99 07:55:23 What schedules? 07-31-99 07:55:34 Pause. 07-31-99 07:55:43 warpicity development schedules 07-31-99 07:55:49 ah 07-31-99 07:56:00 gotta have goals 07-31-99 07:56:01 Warpicity is a volunteer effort. 07-31-99 07:56:19 volunteers particularly respond to goals 07-31-99 07:56:23 Our first goal is to produce a SL/I batch compiler. 07-31-99 07:56:49 benchmarking topics: performance under various conditions, the performance of various parts of the system (drives, video, CPU, ect), performance relative to other systems. 07-31-99 07:56:55 okay, how bout a topic on the compiler development, what's involved, estimated schedule 07-31-99 07:57:23 Let's stick with benchmarking. Sector has provided the sub-topics. 07-31-99 07:58:37 With compiler development you have a parser, a syntax checker, a semantic analyser, and a two-stage proof engine. 07-31-99 07:58:46 okay, but keep thinking of other "related" topics too. like java incorporation as user interface 07-31-99 07:59:33 Do you have some doubts about the viability of benchmarking as a subject? 07-31-99 07:59:57 lmaxson, could you lead a discussion next week on overview of compiler development (in general) 07-31-99 08:00:14 how it would be the same or different for warpicity 07-31-99 08:00:16 I could, but why? 07-31-99 08:00:26 it seems interesting 07-31-99 08:00:40 we need interesting, bite size topics to attract people 07-31-99 08:00:43 If you want to try it, we can try it. 07-31-99 08:01:06 To me benchmarking has more general interest. 07-31-99 08:01:07 topic one - compiler development, lead - lmaxson 07-31-99 08:01:15 need one more topic. 07-31-99 08:01:24 You got a one-track mind. 07-31-99 08:01:35 two track. 07-31-99 08:01:43 You want to involve people, involve in something that they can do. 07-31-99 08:02:11 track one is compiler, track 2 is ... web benchmarking? 07-31-99 08:02:18 Everyone has an interest in knowing the potential of their computing investment and means of achieving it. 07-31-99 08:02:45 how so? 07-31-99 08:02:55 Everything from config.sys to .ini to scsi versus ide. 07-31-99 08:03:20 What it takes to maximise your OS/2 investment on your machine. 07-31-99 08:03:52 Benchmarking is a means of testing actual versus potential. 07-31-99 08:04:49 I have to leave. 07-31-99 08:04:49 Other things to add: BIOS setings, Cache differences 07-31-99 08:04:53 It's not 10:30 yet... 07-31-99 08:04:54 You got it sector. 07-31-99 08:05:05 Give me 5 then. 07-31-99 08:06:16 * Sector gives lmaxson five (1...2...3...4...5) 07-31-99 08:06:34 so what do you think of a topic #2 07-31-99 08:07:18 i'd like to lead benchmarking up to an Expo demp 07-31-99 08:07:21 demo 07-31-99 08:08:13 testing actual vs potential is good 07-31-99 08:08:22 how do i use it as a diagnostic? 07-31-99 08:08:25 Could have a primary topic (ie: benchmarking) with subtopics (benchmarks versus real world performance, differences between video cards) for example 07-31-99 08:08:25 Wait a minute. 07-31-99 08:08:30 find probs in my config 07-31-99 08:08:43 Whoa. 07-31-99 08:08:53 i'm whoa'd 07-31-99 08:09:05 Consider the general meeting. 07-31-99 08:09:15 Consider these chat opportunities. 07-31-99 08:09:36 Now how do we relate them, transferring the attendance in one to the other? 07-31-99 08:10:05 Benchmarking, getting the most from your OS/2, is possibly one way. 07-31-99 08:10:19 we could summarize a month's discussions in a presentation at general sig 07-31-99 08:10:29 Make it an offering of the general meeting and an ongoing chat session. 07-31-99 08:10:57 Damn, we have to have a face-to-face. 07-31-99 08:10:58 i'll talk to general sig lead, paul, see what he thinks 07-31-99 08:11:23 Does anyone ever think before taking an action. 07-31-99 08:11:35 most do 07-31-99 08:11:43 amount varies 07-31-99 08:11:48 Well, let's think here for the moment. 07-31-99 08:12:13 Let's make sense here, before we try to transfer it elsewhere. 07-31-99 08:12:16 hmmmm (<--thinking indicator) 07-31-99 08:12:38 The purpose is integration. 07-31-99 08:12:55 Of tying two different things together. 07-31-99 08:13:07 That means doing at a meeting what you cannot do in a chat session. 07-31-99 08:13:16 you mean the 2 topic concept? 07-31-99 08:13:26 Using the two then to do together what neither can achieve separately. 07-31-99 08:13:33 oh, irc vs live 07-31-99 08:13:54 No, I do not mean the 2 topic concept. 07-31-99 08:13:55 OS/2 tips: Getting the most out of our OS (config.sys settings, performance tips, ect) 07-31-99 08:14:01 *** TonyB (butka@slip166-72-214-95.ca.us.ibm.net) has joined #SCOUG [08:14:01] 07-31-99 08:14:09 One topic, two forms optimize for their media. 07-31-99 08:14:12 hi, tony 07-31-99 08:14:36 yes, if we could make this a "how to improve your system" thread, that would be useful to lots of folks 07-31-99 08:14:38 You cannot demonstrate in a chat session. 07-31-99 08:14:45 You can only talk. 07-31-99 08:14:52 but restricting to one topic will get stale 07-31-99 08:14:54 You can do in a demo. 07-31-99 08:15:11 one media for talking, one for demonstrating. 07-31-99 08:15:15 actually, we can demo here 07-31-99 08:15:37 Well, give it a chance to get stale first. 07-31-99 08:15:45 put the demo on web page, people follow along, hands on 07-31-99 08:16:00 Now you have introduced another media. 07-31-99 08:16:03 Hi Dave. I finally did manage to join a session :-) 07-31-99 08:16:10 great! 07-31-99 08:16:13 Lo, Tony. 07-31-99 08:16:27 Hi Lynn 07-31-99 08:16:30 light crowd today. I didn't advertise this week 07-31-99 08:17:11 What we are trying to do is protect a member's OS/2 investment. 07-31-99 08:17:16 We have a number of media to use. 07-31-99 08:17:24 so for next weeks topic we could start with a list of user tools for benchmarking their systems 07-31-99 08:17:55 There you go again. 07-31-99 08:18:18 line them up beforehand, post places to ge t them on the web, they can try them out and discuss them at sat morning 07-31-99 08:18:31 where I go again? you don't want to plan for next week? 07-31-99 08:18:50 Let's plan for next week. 07-31-99 08:18:59 Let's make it exploratory. 07-31-99 08:19:26 Next week as in the Internet SIG? 07-31-99 08:19:31 Let's let the participants in this chat and in the monthly meeting decide on which options to explore and in what order. 07-31-99 08:19:42 no, next sat's warp systems meeting 07-31-99 08:19:52 we're trying to define a focus 07-31-99 08:20:09 Which by the way is at 8am instead of 6am. 07-31-99 08:20:09 Got it 07-31-99 08:20:33 toying with topics of compiler development (part of warpicity) and "benchmarking" as system management tool 07-31-99 08:20:46 The subject is benchmarking. Related to it is capacity planning. 07-31-99 08:21:10 i'm thinking if we can define topics people can identify with, might get more folks 07-31-99 08:21:27 too broad a topic, hard to get people interested 07-31-99 08:21:55 tony, what do you think would get couple dozen of our friends here on sat morning? 07-31-99 08:21:58 You seem to like the general sig. Why not have a topic of interest there and here? 07-31-99 08:22:20 target of opportunity 07-31-99 08:22:47 yes. 07-31-99 08:22:51 I think that (like me) there has to be a hook to get them to find out how utterly simple chat is 07-31-99 08:23:09 You think this is simple? 07-31-99 08:23:18 From a connection perspective perhaps. 07-31-99 08:23:31 You don't¨ 07-31-99 08:23:59 couldn't be simpler 07-31-99 08:24:12 except maybe add a spell checker 07-31-99 08:24:15 You try having a conversation with Dave for two hours. 07-31-99 08:24:21 and voice synth and rec 07-31-99 08:24:36 but those are Wednesday topics 07-31-99 08:24:56 or maybe monday 07-31-99 08:25:36 tony, simple mechanics are fine, but we still need a reason to expend the time 07-31-99 08:26:12 ASSUMING we can convey the simplicity of irc to couple dozen friends, what do we entice them here with? 07-31-99 08:29:05 Been there, done that... 07-31-99 08:29:05 The man invented tangential expressions. 07-31-99 08:29:06 Mabye not the technology, but the deed. My daughters 21 year old friend is addicted 07-31-99 08:29:06 This is an easy on, easy off. 07-31-99 08:31:07 How about a language translator? 07-31-99 08:31:08 Bah, let your fingers do the talking 07-31-99 08:31:09 Define it on Wednesday, fix it on Monday 07-31-99 08:31:09 *** Sector*=+andreww@03-123.015.popsite.net 07-31-99 08:31:10 *** USERHOST No information available 07-31-99 08:31:10 You're right. So far, I know that not all that many members have tried. 07-31-99 08:31:10 *** Sector*=+andreww@03-123.015.popsite.net 07-31-99 08:31:11 *** USERHOST No information available 07-31-99 08:31:11 Have we asked them why? 07-31-99 08:31:11 *** Sector*=+andreww@03-123.015.popsite.net 07-31-99 08:31:12 *** USERHOST No information available 07-31-99 08:31:12 *** Sector*=+andreww@03-123.015.popsite.net 07-31-99 08:31:12 *** USERHOST No information available 07-31-99 08:31:13 Why not focus on the sigs? 07-31-99 08:31:13 You have done it already for the internet sig. 07-31-99 08:31:13 The monday night help desk is more aligned with the general sig. 07-31-99 08:31:14 That leaves only the programming sig. 07-31-99 08:31:14 *** Sector*=+andreww@03-123.015.popsite.net 07-31-99 08:31:14 *** USERHOST No information available 07-31-99 08:31:15 In theory if we talk compilers, that should interest them. 07-31-99 08:31:15 Where's Peter? GD&R 07-31-99 08:31:16 If it is a speciat interest, then why not take advantage of their first vote? 07-31-99 08:31:16 *** Sector*=+andreww@03-123.015.popsite.net 07-31-99 08:31:16 *** USERHOST No information available 07-31-99 08:31:17 Tony, you mean device driver writing? 07-31-99 08:31:17 Right 07-31-99 08:31:19 Well, then Peter should be hosting a chat session. 07-31-99 08:31:31 peter doesn't do chat 07-31-99 08:31:49 A scary prospect, that 07-31-99 08:32:08 Why. 07-31-99 08:32:08 Why doesn't Peter chat? 07-31-99 08:32:29 I didn't know that he doesnt. Dave? 07-31-99 08:33:26 *** mandie (judymc@warpedworld.dyndns.com) has joined #scoug [08:33:26] 07-31-99 08:33:41 g'morning 07-31-99 08:34:33 this must be the calm before the storm channel :) 07-31-99 08:34:52 *** CTCP PING (mandie) (#scoug) 07-31-99 08:35:16 Welcome, mandie. 07-31-99 08:35:17 lmaxson: thx :) 07-31-99 08:35:17 It isn't a calm. 07-31-99 08:35:18 *** mandie is now known as Judy 07-31-99 08:35:25 Hi mandie 07-31-99 08:35:30 oh, then I must have missed the excitement :( 07-31-99 08:35:31 Welcome, Judy. 07-31-99 08:35:32 TonyB!!! hi there :) 07-31-99 08:35:36 :) 07-31-99 08:35:38 Hi Judy 07-31-99 08:36:00 Lynn - are we talking about a new compiler or some of the existing free ones? 07-31-99 08:36:20 The compiler is the SL/I compiler for Warpicity. 07-31-99 08:36:39 That's Dave's idea to talk about it. 07-31-99 08:36:48 I have some misgivings about doing it in a chat format. 07-31-99 08:37:07 lmaxson: I saw your concerns posted on CIS 07-31-99 08:37:15 Cool. I know that your discussion on Compuserve has generated substantial interest. Do they have access to this channel? 07-31-99 08:37:36 anyone has access to this channel if they use the webbnet servers 07-31-99 08:37:39 If they have internet and IRC software, yes. 07-31-99 08:38:03 I don't see the interest level. 07-31-99 08:38:19 I know I have done some of my best writing. 07-31-99 08:38:43 But so far they have managed to largely ignore it in favor of something else. 07-31-99 08:39:24 lmaxson: ever thought of starting a newsgroup? 07-31-99 08:39:43 that might be a bit more universal 07-31-99 08:39:44 Judy, I want the internet access to work. 07-31-99 08:40:01 Well, I think that the subject is very interesting to a fairly small group (those who like playing with compilers) 07-31-99 08:40:21 That small group should be in the programming sig. 07-31-99 08:40:49 Judy, I consider CompuServe as another form of the internet. 07-31-99 08:41:05 I like the forums on CompuServe. 07-31-99 08:41:18 I'm getting adjusted to chat formats. 07-31-99 08:41:30 They each have their place. 07-31-99 08:41:53 Now where would you think a newsgroup might fit? 07-31-99 08:41:58 I think the forums are good for those that don't have the 1-1 1/2 hours to sit in a chat session 07-31-99 08:42:15 CIS forums are nice, but VERY different from IRC. I'm used to using GCP to grab headers & mostly work offline. IRC is a whole different real time thing 07-31-99 08:42:17 chat is good for real time, but also has it's pit falls 07-31-99 08:42:58 For the moment consider scoug and scoug members only. 07-31-99 08:43:01 sometimes we have a tendency to "type" before we think and the msg is sometimes misinterpreted 07-31-99 08:43:19 * Sector makes a note for Judy to always think before typing 07-31-99 08:43:34 Sector!!! glad you're keeping me on my "fingers" 07-31-99 08:43:53 lmaxson: please explain your last statement about scoug and scoug members only? 07-31-99 08:43:56 I find the chat format inappropriate for technical discussions. 07-31-99 08:44:55 lmaxson: I have to disagree with that 07-31-99 08:45:46 me too 07-31-99 08:46:14 people used to expand on detailed topics in letters. 07-31-99 08:46:25 this is just a modernization of that 07-31-99 08:46:33 and acceleration 07-31-99 08:47:18 I'm just trying to get a focus on putting acitivities in an integrated manner. 07-31-99 08:47:18 there have been many a person helped in irc with their OS/2 technical problems 07-31-99 08:47:18 Disagreeing with me is par for the course. 07-31-99 08:47:19 hehe 07-31-99 08:47:20 Focus here is extremely hard to maintain. 07-31-99 08:47:21 I agree with that 07-31-99 08:47:21 Lynn, hasn't VOICE done a number of technical presentations/discussions in the past? 07-31-99 08:47:21 *** Sector*=+andreww@03-123.015.popsite.net 07-31-99 08:47:22 *** USERHOST No information available 07-31-99 08:47:22 unless you have a group that are here for one purpose only, the topic seems to wander 07-31-99 08:47:22 I did not say you couldn't do it. 07-31-99 08:47:23 I just think that each format has its strength and failures. 07-31-99 08:47:23 TonyB: yes they have...but foremost in my mind are the #os/2 channels that ppl visit daily when having problems 07-31-99 08:47:24 You need to use them in a manner to maximise the strengths and eliminate the failures. 07-31-99 08:47:24 *** Sector*=+andreww@03-123.015.popsite.net 07-31-99 08:47:24 *** USERHOST No information available 07-31-99 08:47:25 DaveWgt: g'morn :) 07-31-99 08:47:25 you need a good channel moderator than can keep the attendees on topic 07-31-99 08:47:26 The general membership does not have that kind of time to spend. 07-31-99 08:47:34 that needs to be explained prior to beginning the discussion...kinda like "laying down the rules" 07-31-99 08:47:36 They give you two hours once a month in a general meeting. 07-31-99 08:47:40 judy and sector are not geographicly close enough to interact with us in person 07-31-99 08:48:18 OK, got it. Just from my very limited experience this am, it seems to me that as the number of attendees goes up, discontinuity is bound to grow 07-31-99 08:48:19 TonyB: yes, to some extent 07-31-99 08:48:53 TonyB: in some of our VOICE speakups, we have had to moderate the channel 07-31-99 08:49:10 Then back to Lynns point (or one of them), it would not be bad to aim for a small focused group to attend 07-31-99 08:49:18 this means that noone is able to type input unless they /msg one of the channel operators 07-31-99 08:49:32 we keep track of the order and give permission to one person at a time 07-31-99 08:49:34 that's the general idea for 3 scoug chats 07-31-99 08:49:40 different focus for each meeting 07-31-99 08:49:56 this keeps down the "rowdy's" 07-31-99 08:50:18 Judy, that sounds like a LOT of work for the moderator, not to mention touch typing skills 07-31-99 08:50:34 the conversation will wander IF there is not a focus to keep them in order 07-31-99 08:50:52 Tony: we normally have 3 moderators and they take requests based on the alphabet 07-31-99 08:50:55 The moderation is divided up between multiple people 07-31-99 08:51:02 mod 1 may have letters A-K 07-31-99 08:51:08 Judy, I counted 27 at one point last saturday. Seemed very well behaved. 07-31-99 08:51:12 *** Sector is now known as A-K 07-31-99 08:51:20 they had a focus, it worked well even with large group 07-31-99 08:51:36 anyone whose nick starts with those letters would /msg that mod and so on 07-31-99 08:51:55 DaveWgt: it highly depends on the speaker and the attendees 07-31-99 08:51:59 *** A-K is now known as Sector 07-31-99 08:52:09 Interesting. I'll have to try one of the sessions. Will you do that for the Sundial stuff next week? 07-31-99 08:52:12 Sector: you've been there, done that :) 07-31-99 08:52:22 Who me¨ 07-31-99 08:52:50 Tony: we don't need to mod Sundials sessions 07-31-99 08:53:09 how big a group seems to need mod? 07-31-99 08:54:11 scuse me, I'm going to restart my irc. seems flaky this morning. 07-31-99 08:54:16 *** Log Terminated. 07-31-99 08:57:33 *** Log Activated #scoug (D:\APPS\GTIRC30\#scoug.log) 07-31-99 08:57:37 The fact is that IBM continues to lose money on OS/2. 07-31-99 08:57:48 duh 07-31-99 08:58:05 and they're trying so hard! 07-31-99 08:58:06 Those fixpacks don't come cheap. 07-31-99 08:58:31 it's a pr investment 07-31-99 08:58:34 The support reporting structure is still in place. 07-31-99 08:58:50 so is the technical support if you want to pay for it 07-31-99 08:58:52 It's not a pr investment. 07-31-99 08:59:01 As long as IBM has to support the large companies, we might as well stay along for the ride 07-31-99 08:59:11 Tony is right. 07-31-99 08:59:17 they don't "have to support" large companies. 07-31-99 08:59:22 just pr 07-31-99 08:59:25 TonyB: I'm here for the haul :) 07-31-99 08:59:55 Dave, hit the arm on the record player. 07-31-99 08:59:57 lol 07-31-99 09:00:24 I thought there were some very large accounts that *expect* support from Big Blue 07-31-99 09:00:34 It's almost 9am. How about a focus here? 07-31-99 09:00:41 they're all converting to other os 07-31-99 09:01:00 * Sector adjusts the focusing knob 07-31-99 09:01:17 OK Lynn, what was your original idea for a topic? 07-31-99 09:01:20 i'm about to go out and focus on pruning trees 07-31-99 09:01:21 I'm going to have to leave....do you folks log these session and put them up for public "consumption" ? 07-31-99 09:01:23 It's not a topic per se. 07-31-99 09:01:39 Whats not a topic, pruning trees? 07-31-99 09:01:44 Dave: staining window moldings here :( 07-31-99 09:01:49 yes, logs on our web site www.scoug.com/chat 07-31-99 09:02:04 we had 10 new windows put in our houes 07-31-99 09:02:16 house too 07-31-99 09:02:17 Dave: I should know that...thx :) 07-31-99 09:02:17 tangential expressions. 07-31-99 09:02:18 ttyal :) 07-31-99 09:02:18 *** Signoff: Judy (Time wasted: 30 minutes, 41 seconds) [09:02:18] 07-31-99 09:02:59 The pause that refreshes. 07-31-99 09:03:09 Now for focus. 07-31-99 09:03:15 Both us. 07-31-99 09:03:25 Or possibly three or four. 07-31-99 09:03:48 It must have been that 'tangential expressions' remark 07-31-99 09:03:55 I just want to provide a tie-in with the general meeting and these chat sessions. 07-31-99 09:04:06 Perhaps in alignment with the sigs. 07-31-99 09:04:24 to share tpoics, we need to cousult the sig leads 07-31-99 09:04:32 I should have said, "Don't go off on a tangent." 07-31-99 09:04:39 I like that idea a lot -- general interest might generate higher attendance 07-31-99 09:04:49 ... the sig leads who are notorious for their absense at these sessions 07-31-99 09:05:01 That means getting the sig leaders to chat. 07-31-99 09:05:13 check that, rollin and steve come quite often. 07-31-99 09:05:20 paul only came once, I believe 07-31-99 09:05:21 We need to understand their reasons. 07-31-99 09:06:03 That means making the time spent more valuable than other options. 07-31-99 09:06:12 time spent here 07-31-99 09:06:17 For me, the limiting factor in IRC is that you have to be somewhere at a fixed time. Generally, the lure of the net is that it is time independent 07-31-99 09:07:01 trying to socialize antisocial creatures? 07-31-99 09:07:04 Does the General Interest SIG generate the most interest? 07-31-99 09:07:04 Sector, I think so. Most scoug members are non-technical. 07-31-99 09:07:05 Yes, the general interest SIG has the highest numbers 07-31-99 09:07:05 Not professionally, but personally. 07-31-99 09:07:35 Monday night's help chat seems more aligned with their interest. 07-31-99 09:08:13 Well, as I recall Paul is always looking for topics for the general interest group. So a link between that and a Chat might be a natural 07-31-99 09:08:19 The point, as Tony has indicated, is if they are going to chat when would they like to chat. 07-31-99 09:08:23 yes. wed is internet sig. pgmr and gen sigs don't even have web sites 07-31-99 09:08:31 anti-internet sigs 07-31-99 09:08:50 and net sig 07-31-99 09:08:55 Dave, that's like IBM bashing. 07-31-99 09:09:07 what, easy target? 07-31-99 09:09:14 The goal is to encourage participation. 07-31-99 09:09:42 oh, i see. stating that the sigs don't do internet isn't bashing, just stating observations 07-31-99 09:09:46 The point is to have one positive lead to another. 07-31-99 09:09:54 What if we surveyed the members at our next meeting as to what time slot (day/time) would be the most likely for them to be available 07-31-99 09:10:31 we haven't had good response to surveys 07-31-99 09:10:37 You can do that. 07-31-99 09:10:47 Rather we can do that. 07-31-99 09:11:10 Dave, I was thinking of 'casually' talking one on one to some of the members & bringning up the topic. 07-31-99 09:11:34 Personally scoug programming is in the doldrums. I think that carries over into the sigs. 07-31-99 09:11:41 Cordinate it though, I don't think the members would need three differnet people asking the same thing. 07-31-99 09:11:48 There is a thing know as trying too hard. 07-31-99 09:12:06 know -> known 07-31-99 09:12:11 Lynn - ouch! 07-31-99 09:12:15 i don't believe there is such a thing as trying too hard 07-31-99 09:12:36 i believe there is such a thing as giving up too easily. quite common 07-31-99 09:12:38 When you do more than is necessary? 07-31-99 09:12:58 who defines necessary? 07-31-99 09:12:59 You are an excellent example. 07-31-99 09:13:16 says you 07-31-99 09:13:16 Dave, you do not bother to define necessary. 07-31-99 09:13:25 Says me. 07-31-99 09:13:36 no, we just have different perceptions of what's necessary 07-31-99 09:13:39 The membership is our source. 07-31-99 09:13:58 I will readily admit that I do not know what is necessary. 07-31-99 09:14:08 I haven't done my defining homework. 07-31-99 09:14:19 I am simply suggesting that you haven't either. 07-31-99 09:14:32 Maybe it's something that we can do together. 07-31-99 09:14:58 I am only a member. 07-31-99 09:15:11 I know letter of needs beyond my own. 07-31-99 09:15:16 well, there's 2 kinds of folks. 07-31-99 09:15:32 those that do something about their perceptions of necessisity and those who don't 07-31-99 09:15:34 Those that do and those that don't? 07-31-99 09:15:48 You are action oriented. 07-31-99 09:16:05 I'll try to work on agendas and promotions for next week, anyone else is welcome to add to it. 07-31-99 09:16:19 our main problem is so far no one else does 07-31-99 09:16:36 Did you decide on a time and topic? 07-31-99 09:16:44 drop me a line if you have ideas, suggestions, prefs, visions, etc 07-31-99 09:16:46 I suspect that for a lot of the members, the face to face contact of a monthly meeting & newsletter is all they want. What I have no clue about, is what subset there is who would be interested in a Chat 07-31-99 09:17:12 7 pm mon and wed, 8am sat. agendas tbd 07-31-99 09:17:34 That means that our first emphasis, our first quality take, is on those two. 07-31-99 09:17:42 a lot of the members don't even come to the monthly meetings, some come and don't stay 07-31-99 09:18:09 in utterly practical terms, we should probably disband scoug 07-31-99 09:18:19 Oops, so much for my theory 07-31-99 09:18:21 You get them to sniff the bait. What do you have to do to hook them? 07-31-99 09:18:50 Why is that practical? 07-31-99 09:19:06 I enjoy the monthly meetings. 07-31-99 09:19:25 I leave only because I have to pick up someone from Amtrak. 07-31-99 09:19:34 i think it's simpler than that. don't need to hook them. Just have the meeting, those who like it come, those who dont, dont 07-31-99 09:19:48 i gotta go too. work 07-31-99 09:19:56 Compared to the Unix group, and what I've heard from others, we are one of a handfull of computer groups that are still going 07-31-99 09:19:58 Bye, Dave. 07-31-99 09:20:06 watch the chat mail list and web 07-31-99 09:20:22 Thanks Lynn/Dave. Its been fun. I have to go also. 07-31-99 09:20:26 keep those cards and letters coming 07-31-99 09:20:34 ciao 07-31-99 09:20:38 *** Log Terminated.