-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -=-= okay, clock is still 15 min fast -=-= and I tried adjusting it part way -=-= through, adding an hour. I've since -=-= added an internet sync, so should -=-= be accurate in the future! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 07-17-99 06:16:56 *** Log Activated #scoug (D:\APPS\GTIRC\#scoug.log) 07-17-99 06:17:10 Dave should be on shortly. 07-17-99 06:17:23 howdy 07-17-99 06:17:28 Hello 07-17-99 06:17:41 * Sector was beginning to wonder if it was Saturday... 07-17-99 06:17:41 Speak of the devil. 07-17-99 06:18:11 I'm going to get my coffee. brb 07-17-99 06:18:27 I think we have to shift our schedule for before-IRC activities in order to get to the scoug meeting on time. 07-17-99 06:19:10 Sector, were you feeling all alone? 07-17-99 06:19:15 Schedule this later after the face-to-face meeting? 07-17-99 06:19:20 * Sector was lonely 07-17-99 06:20:04 Interestingly we do not have a SIG for this at the general meeting. 07-17-99 06:20:30 For what, Warpicity¨ 07-17-99 06:21:08 Not Warpicity, but for Warped Systems, general community issues. 07-17-99 06:22:17 Dave started this to encourage greater worldwide participation. 07-17-99 06:22:36 Yup 07-17-99 06:23:11 What we look for here is somehow encouraging europe and australia to chip in. 07-17-99 06:23:54 Doesn't look like we are having much luck with that today 07-17-99 06:24:16 some came in late last week. 07-17-99 06:24:34 I need to learn more about the marketing overseas. 07-17-99 06:25:06 Oddly enough when I have talked with european-based people they seem to be off doing something else with no access to a computer at this time. 07-17-99 06:25:13 I'm working on my ISP to add the dk newsgroup 07-17-99 06:25:48 okay, should we byte the bullet and move to another time? discarding on of the continents? 07-17-99 06:26:12 Europe seems to be the bigger interest 07-17-99 06:26:26 I'm almost ready to vote for this time on Sunday morning. 07-17-99 06:26:38 Why Sunday morning? 07-17-99 06:27:03 I guess I'm trying to get acculturated. 07-17-99 06:27:22 there's a pill for that, I think 07-17-99 06:27:38 Sometimes one becomes a pill. 07-17-99 06:28:10 I don't think there is anything wrong with this time. 07-17-99 06:28:17 shifting times BEFORE we get established is better than after we've been at it for a while 07-17-99 06:28:27 Agreed 07-17-99 06:28:58 Yes, but we tried to pick a time that didn't interfere with work. 07-17-99 06:29:11 With their work. 07-17-99 06:29:19 only issue would be it's Saturday night, date night, in au, and Saturday afternoon at the beach or whatever in europe 07-17-99 06:30:29 None USA people tend to go away on weekends. 07-17-99 06:30:41 we have our monthly club meeting this morning, I'll try browbeating our members into participating better 07-17-99 06:31:07 Apparently they don't take their computers with them. 07-17-99 06:31:24 Moving the time up to after the meeting could help. That way you can remind them at the meeting... 07-17-99 06:31:25 I would forego the browbeating. 07-17-99 06:31:51 diplomaticly of course 07-17-99 06:32:30 I have to leave the meeting by 10:30 to pick my ladyfriend up in SJC at the Amtrak station. 07-17-99 06:32:57 marketing makes a big difference, though. I didn't even send out announcements locally this week. Sorry bout that 07-17-99 06:33:07 I would be unavailable until about 11:30. 07-17-99 06:33:24 you're not going to SJC??? 07-17-99 06:33:39 How much advertising do you have to do for a regualarly scheduled event? 07-17-99 06:34:03 not much, one would think, but we're still trying to get established 07-17-99 06:34:12 San Juan Capistrano. I live in Laguna Niguel. 07-17-99 06:34:41 ah. I spend a lot of time in San Jose, airport code SJC... 07-17-99 06:34:57 She comes down from Simi Valley. If she got off in Santa Ana, I would have to leave the meeting even earlier. 07-17-99 06:35:09 I remembered. 07-17-99 06:35:54 Let's leave the time alone. Let's leave the day alone. 07-17-99 06:36:08 agreed. 07-17-99 06:36:23 I'll promise to improve the marketing. 07-17-99 06:36:33 Each time I sign on the internet I go to the voice and scoug IRC channels. 07-17-99 06:37:04 They are mostly available and unused. 07-17-99 06:37:41 That means that very small groups of interested people could do their own scheduling. 07-17-99 06:38:08 some of the popular forums on compuserve and aol run round the clock, I hear 07-17-99 06:38:27 For scheduling purposes this has some advantages over face-to-face. 07-17-99 06:38:36 i've been trying to encourage folks to use the scoug channel more often. 07-17-99 06:38:41 Well, the channels are available on WEBBnet around the clock 07-17-99 06:39:21 Yes. 07-17-99 06:39:42 i think I'll try "broadcasting" the SCOUG board meetings 07-17-99 06:39:54 What does that mean? 07-17-99 06:39:55 Of course someone can easily create there own channel if needed 07-17-99 06:40:31 I would transcribe the proceedings as they occur, listeners could submit comments to the board 07-17-99 06:40:43 Don't do that. 07-17-99 06:41:03 You could create a logfile that way as well 07-17-99 06:41:09 Dave, what you are doing now is correct. 07-17-99 06:41:11 the meetings are public, anybody can attend 07-17-99 06:41:37 No. Let's discuss this. 07-17-99 06:42:39 when I get my web cam working I'll broadcast SCOUG meetings 07-17-99 06:42:49 There are two times to consider here. The source's time. The receiver's time. 07-17-99 06:43:29 they can be async via the logs 07-17-99 06:43:37 The web cam is a different deal. That way people can choose how they spend their time without placing a greater strain on your available energy. 07-17-99 06:44:15 engaging takes energy, but a lot of folks don't engage, just lurk 07-17-99 06:44:25 ... which is okay, too 07-17-99 06:44:46 Lurking simply says what energy they are willing to devote. 07-17-99 06:44:58 They are voting. 07-17-99 06:45:26 You need to encourage lurking. 07-17-99 06:45:36 good point 07-17-99 06:45:41 /lurk on 07-17-99 06:46:07 No, Sector, you can't switch. 07-17-99 06:46:22 i hope we'll get big enoug where we'll have to demand lurking by restricting input 07-17-99 06:46:23 Why not¨ 07-17-99 06:46:43 I am still coming to terms with the format of a chat session. 07-17-99 06:47:01 Dave, you are talking moderated chat? 07-17-99 06:47:08 me too, but irc has provisions to moderate 07-17-99 06:47:18 that would be yet another "format" 07-17-99 06:47:35 We are going to do a moderated session on CompuServe. 07-17-99 06:47:40 necessary if you get more than 20 or so, I suspect 07-17-99 06:47:44 I have my doubts. 07-17-99 06:48:07 VOICE has had >20 without the need ofr moderation 07-17-99 06:48:13 of course if they're well behaved they will self-moderate 07-17-99 06:48:15 No, the number should be unimportant. 07-17-99 06:48:30 a lot of chatters are ... chatty 07-17-99 06:48:47 if you have a focused meeting you need to control the chat somehow 07-17-99 06:48:57 It's not behavior. It's the number of open threads, questions and responses, over a single channel. 07-17-99 06:49:41 if the threads are all on point it works. it often diverges though 07-17-99 06:50:02 That's single point, single thread. 07-17-99 06:50:06 that's a detraction to many of the more serious people we'd like to have at a session like this 07-17-99 06:50:29 Let's think about it for a second. 07-17-99 06:50:55 i expect if the ruckus gets too bad we can pound the virtual gavel 07-17-99 06:50:59 You have only a limited time, normally for whatever reason, two hours. 07-17-99 06:51:30 2 hrs is manageable chunk of time for many people 07-17-99 06:51:50 However, you also know that it is also a regular time, meaning will repeat. 07-17-99 06:52:24 The issue is to treat successive time periods as a continuation of one. 07-17-99 06:53:09 The problem is coherence. How best to achieve it. The more coherence the more efficient the use of time. 07-17-99 06:53:10 that will get the visitors comfortabable 07-17-99 06:54:18 It's finding people's comfort zone that we need to address. 07-17-99 06:54:47 yes, the maximum number of people 07-17-99 06:55:21 Maximum number of people as relating to? 07-17-99 06:55:56 Lurkers have a comfort zone, chatters a different one, serious discussers yet another. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -=-= okay, there's not really -=-= a gap here. Tried reset -=-= the clock, added an hr... -=-= really 1 hr fast now. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 07-17-99 07:56:34 * Sector doesn't have a comfort zone 07-17-99 07:40:56 some folks need to find their though 07-17-99 07:41:21 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 07-17-99 07:41:21 Yes, Dave, now how do we determine that? 07-17-99 07:41:30 trial and error 07-17-99 07:41:39 when we find it, we'll have lots of people here 07-17-99 07:42:17 Well, yes and no. You actually don't have to have people here. 07-17-99 07:42:33 i inserted the dashes for a break in the log. I finally adjusted my clock 07-17-99 07:43:15 I like the forums on CompuServe. 07-17-99 07:43:22 Does that mean we don't have another 11 hours, 40 minutes or so one like Wednesday night/Thursday morning was¨ 07-17-99 07:43:47 I missed that one. 07-17-99 07:44:21 DaveWgt should have a logfile of most of it 07-17-99 07:44:45 i try to label the time offset at the beginnings of the logs 07-17-99 07:45:10 i'll try to add a time setting app to all my machines 07-17-99 07:45:20 Well, Sector, why do you come here? 07-17-99 07:45:34 Heck if I know 07-17-99 07:45:41 sector is a "manager" 07-17-99 07:45:41 There you have it. 07-17-99 07:45:47 Dave, GTirc puts a timestamp on the logfiles 07-17-99 07:45:52 he runs the joint 07-17-99 07:46:09 You mean he has to be here? 07-17-99 07:46:14 yes, but if the system clock is wrong, so is GTIRC 07-17-99 07:46:38 yeah, if we misbehave, he might get arrested 07-17-99 07:46:56 It is a log of the session. Why worry about the time. 07-17-99 07:47:04 Just use something like Nistime that auto updates from Network Time Servers whenever your on the Internet using NTP (Network Time Protocal) 07-17-99 07:47:14 there are nifty little apps that check some atomic clock somewhere when you log on and set your clock to the microsecond 07-17-99 07:47:26 Yup 07-17-99 07:47:47 I fail to understand the importance. 07-17-99 07:48:33 the logs have a time stamp. my system clock on this machine has been off 15 minutes for a while. I just reset it 07-17-99 07:48:34 os2_ntpd will figure out your variance and correct for drift even while not on-line 07-17-99 07:48:54 i like to be accurate 07-17-99 07:48:56 I would place greater emphasis on content. 07-17-99 07:49:01 of course 07-17-99 07:49:15 And your clocks off 15 minutes? 07-17-99 07:49:20 but details matter, too 07-17-99 07:49:40 used to be off 15 minutes. not now 07-17-99 07:49:43 What do people who read logs read? 07-17-99 07:49:52 the logs have the time stamps 07-17-99 07:50:09 If they read timestamps, they truly have time on their hands. 07-17-99 07:50:10 this log will show a shift, an apparent 15 min gap. 07-17-99 07:50:28 I put the dashes in there to remind me to insert an explanagion 07-17-99 07:50:30 Dave, you worry too much about it. 07-17-99 07:50:48 not worried, just trying to be thorough 07-17-99 07:50:53 Thats what he gets paid for, so little guys like us don't have to 07-17-99 07:51:00 It's not necessary. 07-17-99 07:51:23 it is important to some folks. you'd be surprised at the sort of complaints I get 07-17-99 07:51:31 It's being penneywise and pound foolish. 07-17-99 07:52:01 I would let them complain. If they didn't like it, then they could offer to do it. 07-17-99 07:52:09 part of our approach is good content, part is having as few irritants as possible, so the most people will be comfortable without distractions 07-17-99 07:52:32 most won't offer anything, though. theyll just go away 07-17-99 07:52:41 i want them here 07-17-99 07:52:43 I don't read timestamps. I don't care how long the interval between messages. 07-17-99 07:52:51 so i'll try to make them comfortable. 07-17-99 07:53:06 so you can give them content 07-17-99 07:53:10 If they are here, they do not see timestamps. 07-17-99 07:53:26 correct 07-17-99 07:53:37 unless THEIR clock is wrong... 07-17-99 07:53:53 ...but i can't fix everything 07-17-99 07:53:53 Why would they have to see more in the log than what we see here? 07-17-99 07:54:04 There's nothing to fix. 07-17-99 07:54:23 If you build it, they will come. It 07-17-99 07:54:34 It's content, content, content. 07-17-99 07:54:53 i agree. we just have to be patient. not much content this morning, however... 07-17-99 07:55:09 It's substance. It's having a useful expenditure of effort. 07-17-99 07:55:32 there's sort of a critical mass, i think, at about 6 people, before we start discussing useful things, get focused 07-17-99 07:55:47 We can change the content. Let's talk about Warped Systems. 07-17-99 07:56:15 Within that where we are with respect to benchmarking. 07-17-99 07:57:21 You mean you had rather talk about timestamping? 07-17-99 07:58:44 It's the pauses, the long silences, that do me in. 07-17-99 07:59:17 Don't use the Pause key... 07-17-99 07:59:31 That's one I avoid. 07-17-99 07:59:40 whoops, i got distracted for a moment. 07-17-99 07:59:55 So now you just need a silence key that you can also avoid 07-17-99 07:59:56 Loss of sleep with do that. 07-17-99 08:00:06 nah, just too much going on 07-17-99 08:00:24 Aliens landing on your front lawn? 07-17-99 08:00:26 Now, you see I am focused. 07-17-99 08:00:42 And Dave is out of focus 07-17-99 08:01:02 Too many attention competing activities. 07-17-99 08:01:03 unless Paul has something interesting at the general sig, I'm going to sit in on the programming sig, see if they have any ideas on benchmarking, and on modernizing an irc app 07-17-99 08:01:18 this morning 07-17-99 08:01:30 Interfere with Peter's device driver writing session? 07-17-99 08:02:09 the benchmarking topic can be a lot of fun, and potentially VERY useful, but it's highly technical and we need lots of advisors 07-17-99 08:02:59 Then why select the programming SIG. If you can't speak REXX or JAVA, they won't understand you anyway. 07-17-99 08:03:00 by the way, the sci fi channel has one of those internet oriented magazine shows on right now. 07-17-99 08:03:18 Dave, stay focused. 07-17-99 08:03:34 *** GOPO^ (rstrader@ppp-206-170-68-96.irvn11.pacbell.net) has joined #SCOUG [08:03:34] 07-17-99 08:03:36 Dave would rather be out of focus 07-17-99 08:03:54 our sig choices are limited, but the programmers are more technical than general, and therefore more likely to appreciate the benchmarking techniques and potential 07-17-99 08:04:02 monrin Bob 07-17-99 08:04:09 hello 07-17-99 08:04:36 we've been quite unfocused this morning, just starting to discuss benchmarking 07-17-99 08:04:57 I stopped going to the programming sig, because I have an interest in software development. 07-17-99 08:05:02 * Sector hands DaveWgt an autofocus attachment 07-17-99 08:05:10 how about a goal - let's have a ziff davis benchmark demo at Expo 07-17-99 08:05:20 Good attachment sector. 07-17-99 08:05:42 I thought you had announced such already. 07-17-99 08:05:58 If you need help, I will assist. 07-17-99 08:06:08 I've brought up the irc app develolpment with them, not benchmarking 07-17-99 08:06:25 we just began that topic since the last meeting 07-17-99 08:06:49 You did not bring it up with me, because I tend to place user needs above programmer ideas. 07-17-99 08:06:54 also, brogrammer sig has a mail list, so if we get them started they can do some supplemental discussions on it between our weekly chats 07-17-99 08:07:49 Dave, look at the IRC format. What does it allow you to do easily? What less so? 07-17-99 08:08:12 realtime discussions between lots of people 07-17-99 08:08:46 I have a problem with the programmer sig, because I happen to practice specification, analysis, and design before I get there, not after. 07-17-99 08:08:47 suffers from the distraction of having to read and type 07-17-99 08:09:19 No. you cannot have realtime discussions between lots of people. 07-17-99 08:09:29 well, it's primarily a club of hobbyists, not a production company 07-17-99 08:09:54 sure we do -- have realtime discussions -- that's the nature of the medium 07-17-99 08:09:55 It's people who are filling up time in the morning. 07-17-99 08:09:56 Whats so distracting about reading and typing¨ 07-17-99 08:10:22 sector, reading and typing are truly unnatural for most folks 07-17-99 08:10:26 I'm not saying it's not a realtime discussion, only not one possible with lots of people. 07-17-99 08:10:32 we're exceptions, i believe 07-17-99 08:11:09 i see it like a coctail party. lots of discussions going on, those who can multitask are involced in several at once 07-17-99 08:11:16 What you want it to be, a goal if you will, is to have it perceived as a realtime discussion between lots of people. 07-17-99 08:11:42 yes, and that's what i think the medium supports, its forte 07-17-99 08:12:24 Then you need to be able to, one, limited the number of concurrent discussions to an easily followed number, and, two, allow their separate discussion in a separate session. 07-17-99 08:12:55 Both those are easy to do 07-17-99 08:12:57 ah, now that's a great idea - a pair of companion channels 07-17-99 08:13:03 You see, why should you expend extra effort to do a synopsis of a log? 07-17-99 08:13:12 one for the main discussion, one to support side channels 07-17-99 08:13:22 How about five to seven companion channels? 07-17-99 08:13:37 Forget main discussion. 07-17-99 08:14:00 i can't follow more than 2, maybe 4, due to window size. 07-17-99 08:14:10 The main discussion is a composite of the side channels. 07-17-99 08:14:28 Now we are getting into real limits. 07-17-99 08:14:35 there's no way to composite them, except in the participants' heads. 07-17-99 08:14:49 Up your res or lower your font size 07-17-99 08:15:15 yeah, and get my eyes fixed 07-17-99 08:15:42 Ok, use more then one comptuer 07-17-99 08:15:43 but lets start with 2 - how would we employ 2 channels 07-17-99 08:15:54 How about the magic number 3? 07-17-99 08:16:06 All things in moderation. 07-17-99 08:16:12 okay, how would we employ 3 channels 07-17-99 08:16:32 You want improved IRC capabilities? 07-17-99 08:17:05 one window discussing benchmarking, one discussing warpicity, one for side conversations 07-17-99 08:17:29 First, you limit the number of outstanding discussions to the number of windows open. 07-17-99 08:17:51 You do not allow a new discussion without replacing one of the windows in use. 07-17-99 08:18:11 you and i don't necessarly have the same windows open 07-17-99 08:18:30 We will in the improved software. 07-17-99 08:18:31 or are you talking about an integrated multi channel irc app? 07-17-99 08:18:37 i see 07-17-99 08:19:00 we can experiment with that with multiple channels, miltiple windows 07-17-99 08:19:04 The point is what are normal human limits on concurrent activities in realtime? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=- -= open scoug2 and scoug3 to see parallel dialog =- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 07-17-99 08:19:29 I just started #scoug2, please join 07-17-99 08:19:32 The number 5 to 7 comes to mind. 07-17-99 08:19:33 * Sector isn't normal or human so he wouldn't know 07-17-99 08:19:50 lets see how t channels works 07-17-99 08:19:56 Sector just wants to be different. 07-17-99 08:20:28 Is it t for two? 07-17-99 08:20:31 * Sector doesn't have to want... 07-17-99 08:20:35 lynn and bob, do your clients support multiple channels? 07-17-99 08:20:56 I use GRIRC. I think the answer is yes. 07-17-99 08:20:58 maxson's does 07-17-99 08:21:04 we have a second channel going, #scoug2 07-17-99 08:21:14 Whoops, GTIRC. 07-17-99 08:21:19 Just type "/join scoug2" 07-17-99 08:21:29 if you join, we can try on 2 simultaneous channels 07-17-99 08:21:32 Err "/join #scoug2" that is 07-17-99 08:21:45 # 07-17-99 08:22:17 *** The topic for #SCOUG is: benchmarking 07-17-99 08:22:22 yes,I think 07-17-99 08:22:49 GOPO^: Just type /join #scoug2 that should do it 07-17-99 08:22:50 I have two windows arranged vertically at the moment. 07-17-99 08:23:05 * Sector now has six windows open, it's getting a bit crowded around here... 07-17-99 08:23:49 where do you put them 07-17-99 08:24:03 join #scoug2 07-17-99 08:24:06 you're 1024 res, right? 07-17-99 08:24:11 I'm using a 1024 x 760 resolution. 07-17-99 08:24:21 That a good question, normally it's setup for 5 non-overlaping windows 07-17-99 08:24:25 * Sector is using 1600x1200 07-17-99 08:24:38 with 800x600 I can get 4 small windows together 07-17-99 08:25:07 At a 1024 three windows viewed concurrently seems reasonable. 07-17-99 08:25:32 okay, I just started #scoug3 07-17-99 08:25:54 join #scoug3 07-17-99 08:26:03 i called it topic of afterhours, for side discussions 07-17-99 08:26:13 Ummm, you need a /join #scoug3... 07-17-99 08:26:44 how does that feel? 07-17-99 08:27:07 Sorry, no feelie attachment 07-17-99 08:27:16 I think 3 very possible. 07-17-99 08:27:37 okay. now we have 2 main threads in separate windows, one for ecclectic discussions 07-17-99 08:28:06 It would be better if it were a single window with three separate panes inside of two panes each. 07-17-99 08:28:18 that way I can monitor or ignore at a macro level instead of picking and choosing from a scrolling list 07-17-99 08:28:40 yes, but we can prototype that with our current window structure 07-17-99 08:28:46 A multipart single window would limit the possible positions 07-17-99 08:28:49 Dave, before you go do something wild again... 07-17-99 08:29:24 Sector I am talking about the use of space. 07-17-99 08:29:37 with all of the help I now have three scoug windows open 07-17-99 08:30:04 2 issues - physical screen space, and user ability to absorb multiple channels in real time 07-17-99 08:30:35 secto has been doing that all along 07-17-99 08:30:35 3 seperate windows don't take up more room but allow for more flexibility in placement, sizing 07-17-99 08:30:44 Who me¨ 07-17-99 08:31:23 one problem I have is now my multitasking includes the mouse. like flying a plane! 07-17-99 08:31:44 Sector, you are correct. The problem is eliminating the unnecessary duplicate spaces. 07-17-99 08:32:04 also, I multitask at my desk, and tend to do something for a minute, come back and review the window and add something. here I only have 10 lines visible 07-17-99 08:32:06 You could use Ctrl-Esc and pop up the Window list, GTirc shows each window individually 07-17-99 08:32:30 so I have to monitor more closely 07-17-99 08:33:07 EIRC permit three seperate windows 07-17-99 08:33:20 I have to close out. clean up, dress, feed dogs, etc, before going to the SCOUG meeting at 9 07-17-99 08:33:31 Should actually allow more then that. 07-17-99 08:33:42 Just do that stuff in another channel 07-17-99 08:33:57 i think we explored some useful topics this morning, thanks for your support. 07-17-99 08:34:09 I promise to do my part and improve the advertising before next week. 07-17-99 08:34:39 if we have 10 or more people, this multi channel approach can be useful 07-17-99 08:34:49 we'll call it the Maxson technique 07-17-99 08:34:54 That's possible 07-17-99 08:35:04 Maxsonizing IRC 07-17-99 08:35:05 See you at the meeting 07-17-99 08:35:09 No, we will not call it that. 07-17-99 08:35:28 okay, but you could be famous! 07-17-99 08:35:28 The maxson equation? 07-17-99 08:35:41 way cool 07-17-99 08:35:46 All I am trying to do is make it work with the least amount of effort on all parties. 07-17-99 08:36:05 I'll monitor for a while in case someone else arrives 07-17-99 08:36:12 ciao 07-17-99 08:36:24 I'll be here until 8:00. 07-17-99 08:36:43 *** GOPO^ has left #SCOUG [08:36:43] 07-17-99 08:37:00 1 down, 3 to go... 07-17-99 08:37:04 Does anyone want to continue this discussion on enhancing IRC usage? 07-17-99 08:38:32 Another one of those pauses that depresses. 07-17-99 08:38:42 Stay off the pause key 07-17-99 08:39:03 You don't understand how short my attention span is. 07-17-99 08:39:20 * Sector increases maxson's attention span 07-17-99 08:39:34 Thanks, I needed that. 07-17-99 08:39:37 Just work on something else during the pauses 07-17-99 08:39:58 If I could get vmodem to work on my machine I would. 07-17-99 08:40:16 Ok, so work on getting vmodem to work 07-17-99 08:40:31 Thank you for that. 07-17-99 08:40:46 Whats wrong with it? 07-17-99 08:41:24 All this depends upon volunteer labor. 07-17-99 08:41:25 *** Stoney (ggranat@slip129-37-239-62.co.us.ibm.net) has joined #SCOUG [08:41:25] 07-17-99 08:41:44 I'm glad we kept the store open. 07-17-99 08:41:51 What the new IRC helper app? 07-17-99 08:41:52 Hi, Stoney. 07-17-99 08:42:06 Hi, just checking to see if there was still anything going on here... 07-17-99 08:42:18 There is. 07-17-99 08:42:31 Good. I'll stick around for a while 07-17-99 08:42:43 Sector, the whole OS/2 community depends upon volunteer labor. 07-17-99 08:43:39 I detect a general depression or negative feeling from conversations with volunteers, like our scoug board of directors. 07-17-99 08:44:35 I don't care what they advertise about WEW. It comes off somewhat hollow on closer examination. 07-17-99 08:45:16 These are good people. You don't want to see them soured or flailing. 07-17-99 08:46:35 I have concerns about Dave. For my money he is too quick to action, witness our recent experiment. 07-17-99 08:47:40 I don't believe in getting into the "how" of a situation before establishing a clear picture of its "what". 07-17-99 08:48:03 The multichannel thing was simply to see how it would work 07-17-99 08:49:07 Yes, but even if it does work, you have to have some understanding of why you want it work. 07-17-99 08:50:09 I would like to see 7 active participants happily entertaining hundreds of lurkers, passive participants. 07-17-99 08:51:03 So, how do we attract the hundreds of lurkers? 07-17-99 08:51:22 Now you have posed a valid question. 07-17-99 08:51:45 That in itself is worth a separate channel. 07-17-99 08:52:05 A scent for lurkers. 07-17-99 08:52:06 That's easy enough to do 07-17-99 08:52:18 No, it is easy to do. 07-17-99 08:52:37 It's knowing what to do. 07-17-99 08:53:11 Knowing when to do it is the hard part 07-17-99 08:53:17 The most looked-for part of our scoug meetings was the general Q&A session. 07-17-99 08:53:55 Sector, let's engage is some analysis here. 07-17-99 08:54:11 The issue is to attract lurkers. 07-17-99 08:54:19 We have two types. 07-17-99 08:54:37 We have the type who log into the chat session. 07-17-99 08:54:46 We have the type who read the logs. 07-17-99 08:55:11 Active Participants, and Lurkers 07-17-99 08:55:33 Active lurkers and passive lurkers. 07-17-99 08:55:52 We assume more passive than active. 07-17-99 08:56:03 Thus we make the logs more interesting. 07-17-99 08:56:48 We want to shift the volunteered effort from passive lurker to active lurker to active participant. 07-17-99 08:57:30 We take what they are willing to give us and increase its effectiveness. 07-17-99 08:58:20 If they are willing to read the log, then we increase its value to them. 07-17-99 08:58:56 Issues about timestamps are unimportant. 07-17-99 08:59:20 Timestamps do nothing to increase the communication content of a log. 07-17-99 08:59:28 *** AllaH (~Allan@p303-067.ppp.get2net.dk) has joined #scoug [08:59:28] 07-17-99 08:59:39 Figure out why they are reading the log and not being here in person (not available at that time, don't find it interesting enough, or ?) 07-17-99 09:00:09 No, sector, figure out why they are not reading the log. 07-17-99 09:00:23 *** AllaH has left #scoug [09:00:23] 07-17-99 09:00:46 Non-lurker, passive lurker, active lurker, active participant. 07-17-99 09:00:49 Well, for some yes. For those already reading they log get them to stop in 07-17-99 09:01:29 The point is to address the needs of each. 07-17-99 09:02:17 I see by my clock that I have to leave in order to make the scoug meeting. 07-17-99 09:02:27 bye. 07-17-99 09:02:27 Ok 07-17-99 09:02:31 *** maxson has left #scoug [09:02:31] 07-17-99 09:02:50 Gotta go to. Bye. 07-17-99 09:02:53 *** Stoney has left #SCOUG [09:02:53] 07-17-99 08:09:46 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 07-17-99 08:09:58 clock set - was wrong 1 hr... 07-17-99 08:10:03 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 07-17-99 08:10:18 Hmmm, you need an auto clock setter 07-17-99 08:26:24 signing off. going to the SCOUG meeting. 07-17-99 08:26:27 *** Log Terminated.